BYOND account: Digresskew
Character name: Cargo Cult
Ban type: Red Warning
Ban length: N/A
Ban reason: "Manuel - As AI, spent a solid 20 minutes assisting Sec in arresting the CMO for breaking into the Captain's quarters despite multiple Law 2 requests to do otherwise. Also spammed vox announcements a bit, don't do that."
Time ban was placed: 2020-02-04 15:35:55
Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed: Cannot be found, there is no ban page because this is a warning.
Your side of the story: As an AI, I had assisted the Chief Medical Officer at the time in entering the captain's quarters. Although I did not ask them at the time, I had assumed they were simply attempting to secure the disk. However, upon surreptitiously declaring themselves acting captain, they then proceeded to grab the captain's locker and try to run out with it. (without securing the disk, I might add) As there was a Head of Personnel at the time, and a research director who was arguably of equal rank and unconsulted on the matter, AND the CMO had not been declared captain in any official or unofficial capacity aside from their own declaration, I viewed this as a capital offense under space law. Because two of the possible punishments under space law are death, and thus are apparently harmful, I had decided to impede their attempt under law one. I had told them that they were entirely free to leave the captain's quarters, so long as they left the locker behind. After a long time of back and forth between me and the CMO over the radio, publicly, I eventually asked security to apprehend them before they did anything that would ACTUALLY get them harmed. the Captain's locker was subsequently stowed in the armory.
Why you think you should be unbanned: I believe that this note is unnecessarily restrictive on AI behavior and interpretation of Asimov laws. Even for Manuel, I think that inhibiting capital offences from proceeding is an entirely justified action according to law one. Vekter clearly thinks differently. I wanted to introduce this precedent to other admins and see what they thought.
References of good conduct: N/A
[Vekter] Digresskew - Manuel AI warning for spacelaw
-
- Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:42 am
- Vekter
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
- Byond Username: Vekter
- Location: Fucking around with the engine.
Re: [Vekter] Digresskew - Manuel AI warning for spacelaw
I think that you're misunderstanding the purpose of the note. I wasn't advising you not to step in, I was advising you not to spend a solid twenty minutes hunting the person down and playing security AI because they broke into the captain's quarters for their locker. You were asked multiple times per law 2 by the CMO to allow them to leave when they posed no clear and present danger to human lives and ignored it under the basis that they might be executed. You're allowed to prevent people from being executed, but this just felt excessive. You had no reason to believe that the other heads would have actually killed them.
The AI doesn't really need to interpret space law in any way, shape, or form. You have one purpose on the station - assist the crew while holding to your laws. None of your laws stated anything to do with space law.
As usual, other admins are free to chime in, but I'm leaving this placed for now.
The AI doesn't really need to interpret space law in any way, shape, or form. You have one purpose on the station - assist the crew while holding to your laws. None of your laws stated anything to do with space law.
As usual, other admins are free to chime in, but I'm leaving this placed for now.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
- Not-Dorsidarf
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:14 pm
- Byond Username: Dorsidwarf
- Location: We're all going on an, admin holiday
Re: [Vekter] Digresskew - Manuel AI warning for spacelaw
Just as a side notes, all heads are equally entitled to be acting captain as per server standards, if the HOP doesn't promote himself with his first dibs at the post it's fair game.
kieth4 wrote: infrequently shitting yourself is fine imo
There is a lot of very bizarre nonsense being talked on this forum. I shall now remain silent and logoff until my points are vindicated.
Player who complainted over being killed for looting cap office wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am Hey there, I'm Virescent, the super evil person who made the stupid appeal and didn't think it through enough. Just came here to say: screech, retards. Screech and writhe like the worms you are. Your pathetic little cries will keep echoing around for a while before quietting down. There is one great outcome from this: I rised up the blood pressure of some of you shitheads and lowered your lifespan. I'm honestly tempted to do this more often just to see you screech and writhe more, but that wouldn't be cool of me. So come on haters, show me some more of your high blood pressure please.
-
- Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:14 pm
- Byond Username: SkeletalElite
- Github Username: SkeletalElite
Re: [Vekter] Digresskew - Manuel AI warning for spacelaw
I think this may be the source of confusion on the appealers part, as per the "given relevant orders" part, law 2 comes before space law.Silicons may choose whether to follow or enforce Space Law from moment to moment unless on a relevant lawset and/or given relevant orders.
- Vekter
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
- Byond Username: Vekter
- Location: Fucking around with the engine.
Re: [Vekter] Digresskew - Manuel AI warning for spacelaw
Peanut, but quoting in case it gets deleted - this is a good point. Your interpretation of space law is trumped by your AI laws.SkeletalElite wrote:I think this may be the source of confusion on the appealers part, as per the "given relevant orders" part, law 2 comes before space law.Silicons may choose whether to follow or enforce Space Law from moment to moment unless on a relevant lawset and/or given relevant orders.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
- Anonmare
- Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:59 pm
- Byond Username: Anonmare
Re: [Vekter] Digresskew - Manuel AI warning for spacelaw
Under silicon policy "Asimov and Human Harm" section 1.1 (paraphrased):-
Humans are allowed to order the AI to let them perform actions that are harmful to themselves if they are fully cogniziant of the consequences of doing so. The CMO should be assumed to know that they were potentially facing consequences and, at most, could have been warned about such actions before their orders were carried out.
Humans are allowed to order the AI to let them perform actions that are harmful to themselves if they are fully cogniziant of the consequences of doing so. The CMO should be assumed to know that they were potentially facing consequences and, at most, could have been warned about such actions before their orders were carried out.
-
- Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:54 am
- Byond Username: Ambassador Magikarp
Re: [Vekter] Digresskew - Manuel AI warning for spacelaw
The note in question doesn't mischaracterize your situation. You can't assume an action is harmful or will be harmful unless it will cause harm immediately afterwards, AKA imminent harm(Letting a simplemob into a room to kill someone, opening a door to expose burning plasma into another room)
Heads can be the acting captain at any point if no other head takes the position and them wishing to be released isn't an unreasonable request.
The CMO was doing something that was expected and completely reasonable of them, the lockdown itself and calling security is a violation of your laws(Which comes first in interpretation, you must listen to your laws first and then you can listen to any personal creeds/beliefs you want like space law or any gimmicks gimmick.)
These restrictions partially exist because the AI being able to freely interpret their laws to their benefit would be an active detriment to the flow of the game and would make them a near-unstoppable situation ruiner. The note exists to state that you should know better in the future if the same situation ever comes up again. Denied.
Heads can be the acting captain at any point if no other head takes the position and them wishing to be released isn't an unreasonable request.
The CMO was doing something that was expected and completely reasonable of them, the lockdown itself and calling security is a violation of your laws(Which comes first in interpretation, you must listen to your laws first and then you can listen to any personal creeds/beliefs you want like space law or any gimmicks gimmick.)
These restrictions partially exist because the AI being able to freely interpret their laws to their benefit would be an active detriment to the flow of the game and would make them a near-unstoppable situation ruiner. The note exists to state that you should know better in the future if the same situation ever comes up again. Denied.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot]