BYOND account: Technokek Character name: Richard Stallman Ban type: Note Ban length: Permanent Ban reason: Overescalation - Shot and lethalled a revolutionary/traitor that was following them around because the revolutionary/traitor had thrown a chair at them and was following them around for period of time. The brig was in no state to hold any sort of prisoner (depowered, no powere), but they have been warned that they shouldn't lethal someone doing slightly suspicious things simply because there isn't any place to hold them. Time ban was placed: 2021-11-08 19:58:19 Server you were playing on when banned: Terry Round ID in which ban was placed:172725 Your side of the story: We have a rev round with a powersink, there are no lights, blood everywhere, security officers keep going missing and people keep dying. The in progress revolution was announced multiple times on coms by the AI so everyone knew. We were unable to get new mindshields as cargo had no power and the brig was completly bolted open as no power means all airlocks have been crowbarred open. Some genious Tider thinks its a good idea to run after a security officer for a good minute and then to follow him into brig knowing fully that we knew of the revs and that everyone else knew about the revs. He then throws a chair at said officer and is confused why he gets killed after stalking sec as a non mindshielded person on a rev round. Why you think you should be unbanned:I dont think this not is accurate in the sense that if you stalk sec on a rev round and fellow them around for a prolonged amount of time and then even throw shit at them you are just valid. I had no option to detain him or mindshield him to make sure he is not a ref as the brig was fucked and shields where nowhere to be found. This person went out of his way to follow sec around and then go into the brig and atack me. This whole thing could have just been prevented if he simply did not attack and stalk sec on a rev round. I dont get why i am supposed to either ahelp to a admin or talk to a non mindshielded person that was actively chasing me. If they where a rev they would just kill me, i did not instigate this situation. They did by stalking me and throwing, they could have stopped this at any point by just walking away. References of good conduct: Anything else we should know:
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From Ticket #5 during round 172725 on Terry
Ticket opened at 2021-11-08 19:43:18 by waltermeldron Log:
19:43:18: Ticket Opened by-waltermeldron: Can you tell me what happened between you and Rex Luther?
19:44:13: Reply from-technokek: retard starts following me on revs then breaks into brig and starts throwing chairs at me
19:46:00: Reply from-waltermeldron: He threw only 1 chair
19:46:21: Reply from-waltermeldron: As for breaking into brig, did he hack in?
19:46:27: Reply from-waltermeldron: Or were the doors open? did he walk in?
19:48:52: Reply from-waltermeldron: Looking at the door, it doesn't look like he hacked it because his fingerprints aren't on it
19:49:01: Reply from-technokek: okay, he starts pointing at me in the halways trying to catch me then i walk away he keeps following me then he walks into the amory when we have fucking revs killing people all over the place and starts throwing chairs at me. Like holy shit i am gonna kill him
19:49:18: Reply from-waltermeldron: Did he walk into the armoury?
19:49:43: Reply from-technokek: he fucking ran after me for about 1 min and followed me into the brig and the started throwing shit at me
19:49:59: Reply from-waltermeldron: He only threw one thing which was a chair
19:50:08: Reply from-waltermeldron: Looking at the logs you didn't really warn him to stop either
19:50:34: Reply from-technokek: he is litterally ban baiting, he fucking did the same stuff last round. He fucked with sec started screaming about how he will willingly join revs and remove his mindshield.
19:51:08: Reply from-waltermeldron: That sounds a bit like a metagrudge if you're taking something from a past round and bringing it into a new round
19:51:18: Reply from-technokek: excuse me?
19:51:45: Reply from-waltermeldron: Did you kill him because he did was as you say last round?
19:51:54: Reply from-technokek: no?
19:52:27: Reply from-waltermeldron: Okay, either way, I don't think you should be lethalling people for simply following you and throwing one chair at you without warning.
19:52:44: Reply from-technokek: i am just telling you that he is a fucking shitter trying to fuck with sec. He was fucking chasing me for 1 min through corridors with nearly 0 lights trying to catch me when we got fucking revs and everyone knows that
19:53:37: Reply from-waltermeldron: If that's the case, ahelp it and we'll sort it. In this case he was a traitor/rev and was likely just trying to get close to security. It's not fun to randomly get lethalled for doing something that was slightly suspicious
19:53:56: Reply from-technokek: he could have adverted this by may just not baiting sec into thinking he is a rev by following them constantly and throwing shit at them? We also had 0 mindshields at that point so no just cuffing him and shielding him was not a option.
19:54:15: Reply from-waltermeldron: He threw only 1 chair
19:54:34: Reply from-waltermeldron: 1 chair isn't enough to lethal someone completely, that's like lethalling someone for shoving you over
19:54:41: Reply from-technokek: Dear Walter if someone chases you and you run into the brig and then he starts throwing shit at you you dont really have time to go "i will go ahelp this incase he is not a rev"
19:54:43: Reply from-waltermeldron: it's overescalation
19:54:58: Reply from-waltermeldron: If he runs into brig, you can detain him. If he ran into armoury, you are fully free to kill him
19:55:48: Reply from-waltermeldron: seeing as how he didn't really do anything wrong, this is a case of overescalation and I've got to ask you to avoid pulling the gun on shitters. If someone is following you, you are allowed to warn them to stop and even warn them that you will kill them if they continue.
19:55:52: Reply from-technokek: i had no means to detain him, the fucking brig was open as fuck. we had no power. the fuck am i gonna detain him with? his rev buddies could have showed up at any second
19:56:03: Reply from-waltermeldron: you didn't know he was a revolutionary
19:56:25: Reply from-waltermeldron: going off of some slightly suspicious behaviour simply isn't good enough
19:56:59: Reply from-technokek: he still attacked me and started this. He could have simply just not attacked me when we have 0 powers and revs murdering sec all over the place.
19:57:11: Reply from-waltermeldron: Attacked you how? by throwing a chair?
19:57:39: Reply from-technokek: how would i know what comes next?
19:57:51: Reply from-waltermeldron: If something did come next, you'd be justified in killing him
19:58:13: Reply from-technokek: the brig had 0 power, we had dead people everywhere. and some guy is stalking me and trying to catch me and starts to throw chairs at me.
19:58:23: Reply from-waltermeldron: You don't preemptively kill someone because they *might* do something, because there's also a possibility that they probably won't. That's what escalation is for, so that you escalate up to lethals
19:59:13: Reply from-waltermeldron: I'm just going to have to ask you to avoid lethalling people like that, even if they are following you. You can compare this situation to spacing prisoners who stole something unimportant from a department because the cells are unsecure, it's just not right.
19:59:35: Reply from-waltermeldron: At the very least you could've warned them to stop following you and then opened lethals. That way, you would've at least escalated the situation
19:59:49: Reply from-technokek: I do not think this is comparable and the note should reflect the situation we where in.
19:59:51: Reply from-waltermeldron: by that I mean opening lethals after they refuse to stop following you after you've given them a good warning to stop
20:00:29: Reply from-technokek: I completly agree that lethally for petty theft or a chair throw in a normal circumstance is not okay.
20:01:32: Reply from-technokek: Please add to the note the circustance that we had. (No ligths, revs, no power, nowhere to detain him and that he was following me for a about a min.)
20:02:40: Reply from-waltermeldron: Okay, just do be aware that you shouldn't lethal someone just because there isn't any place to hold them
---- No futher messages ---- This ticket was generated by Statbus v.0.13.1
You didn't warn them once to back off or to stop following you, you didn't escalate the situation at all, they threw a chair at you once and you killed them for it. You do not get to kill people because they are slightly suspicious and there is no place you can detain them. It is like what I said in that ticket, it would be as if you spaced or killed a prisoner that got arrested for a petty reason because you weren't able to hold them in brig at all.
At the very least, if you had escalated the situation by telling them to back off or to stop following you or else you would open lethals, then it may have been justified but you shot them with no warning because they were following you and threw a chair at you once.
Well i dont think i need to warn someone that has been following me for a extended amount of time to "please stop following me or i have to shoot you, also please dont kill me while i type this k??", in my opinion he acted like a rev by running after sec and trying to bait them to follow them even going into the brig. This again all happened in a revolution that was a complete murderfest as nobody knew who was good and bad, there was no power no mindshields no nothing. He started the engagement by attacking me with a thrown chair, this was his only attack since i killed him after that. I dont see how i need to wait for someone to attack me multiple times to retaliate.
For me this is a case of:
Man acts like rev
Man gets shot like rev
Man was a rev
Since we have quite obviously different opinions on how this should be ruled i am asking for a headadmin to comment about how they see this. I hope you do not take offense in this.
Last edited by technokek on Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
After some discussion, I think I'm going to remove this note because they attacked you with a chair and I've been convinced that it's a good enough justification to kill an unmindshielded person on a revolutionary round.
This should be resolved, I'll remove the note.
Last edited by Waltermeldron on Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Waltermeldron wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:44 pm
After some discussion, I think I'm going to remove this note because they attacked you with a chair and on a rev round I've been convinced that it's a good enough justification to kill an unmindshielded person on a revolutionary round.
This should be resolved, I'll remove the note.
Thank you very much for handeling this so quickly.