The Antag Nerfening
- sinfulbliss
- Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:53 am
- Byond Username: SinfulBliss
- Location: prisoner re-education chamber
The Antag Nerfening
in no particular order:
- adrenals removed (no way to resist batongs)
- agent ID can't copy all of another ID's access
- carp nerfed (can't attack while deflecting, can't deflect while stunned)
- deswords nerfed (no knockdown, lose to batong RNG)
- emag nerfed (can't doorjack, extra 3 TC for airlock)
- detomatix no longer sends an explosion automatically
- all useful offensive tot items locked behind completing 15+ min of fetchquests
- contractor removed
- romerol removed
- cult mirror shield removed
- combat equipment spell no longer gives longsword
- heretic "sacrifices" revive the sac to full HP instead of gibbing
- QM now as a head of staff imbalances revs
over the past couple years antags have been made weaker and weaker. the vast majority of antags except those with 1000+ hours are forced to scuttle around doing minor subversion to stay as stealthy as possible (i.e. out of the stories of as many players as possible) to avoid getting owned by whoever with a batong sees them. issue is worse with traitors and heretics, although revs and cult have been having issues winning recently as well
this issue doesn't exist on manuel but i would argue buffing antags would be a net positive for TG because they can't murderbone anyways on manuel
- adrenals removed (no way to resist batongs)
- agent ID can't copy all of another ID's access
- carp nerfed (can't attack while deflecting, can't deflect while stunned)
- deswords nerfed (no knockdown, lose to batong RNG)
- emag nerfed (can't doorjack, extra 3 TC for airlock)
- detomatix no longer sends an explosion automatically
- all useful offensive tot items locked behind completing 15+ min of fetchquests
- contractor removed
- romerol removed
- cult mirror shield removed
- combat equipment spell no longer gives longsword
- heretic "sacrifices" revive the sac to full HP instead of gibbing
- QM now as a head of staff imbalances revs
over the past couple years antags have been made weaker and weaker. the vast majority of antags except those with 1000+ hours are forced to scuttle around doing minor subversion to stay as stealthy as possible (i.e. out of the stories of as many players as possible) to avoid getting owned by whoever with a batong sees them. issue is worse with traitors and heretics, although revs and cult have been having issues winning recently as well
this issue doesn't exist on manuel but i would argue buffing antags would be a net positive for TG because they can't murderbone anyways on manuel
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- Shadowflame909
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
im just waiting for the sec nerf so i can do gimmicks again without dying painfully and then having my brain hidden away in a toolbox in the armory
antags have definitely gotten weaker..but sec is bloodthirsty as ever
Which leads me to only be able to play in one way. maximum stealth greyshit powergaming. Can't be murdered as valid when I'm using tider tools to complete objectives.
antags have definitely gotten weaker..but sec is bloodthirsty as ever
Which leads me to only be able to play in one way. maximum stealth greyshit powergaming. Can't be murdered as valid when I'm using tider tools to complete objectives.
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- blackdav123
- Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2021 10:04 pm
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
dual wielding disablers is the bane of all antag enjoyment
we should steal the akimbo mechanics from TGMC where dual wielding doesnt increase DPS because you're just shooting both guns one by one with all the delay of one gun
we should steal the akimbo mechanics from TGMC where dual wielding doesnt increase DPS because you're just shooting both guns one by one with all the delay of one gun
Weston Echard on Sybil
- Rohen_Tahir
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
Latejoining as a heretic during a high-threat round and becoming an eldritch ambulance is kinda wack.
- CPTANT
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 1:31 pm
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
One of the nerfs I really hate is that guns no longer fit backpacks. Sec has it easy because it fits their armor, but for the rest it's either use your only belt slot or nothing.
Backpacks should just fit 1-2 guns again.
Backpacks should just fit 1-2 guns again.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- Kendrickorium
- Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:00 am
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
i'm still seething over them taking out swarmers, i'll get back to you in a couple months about detomaxes being 100% unused now
- Shadowflame909
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
The game has definitely become a lot more restrictive and linear instead of the sandbox it was once hailed to be. From antag systems to Job tools getting nerfed and only fitting in job-specific toolbelts. (Looking at you Advanced Engi tools)
I'm just glad mothblocks dnm'd the stun-baton nerf where it'd only fit in toolbelts and not backpacks. That'd of killed the stealth antag build 100%
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- CPTANT
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
Also a lot of job specific traits/antag gear creeped in over the years.Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 12:29 pmThe game has definitely become a lot more restrictive and linear instead of the sandbox it was once hailed to be. From antag systems to Job tools getting nerfed and only fitting in job-specific toolbelts. (Looking at you Advanced Engi tools)
I'm just glad mothblocks dnm'd the stun-baton nerf where it'd only fit in toolbelts and not backpacks. That'd of killed the stealth antag build 100%
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
heretics reviving people is the most ridiculous shit ever imo
- cocothegogo
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
this is because the coders hate murderbone for some reason
- datorangebottle
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
Possibly because large-scale murderbone kills server pop, which makes any other game design pointless.cocothegogo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:21 pm this is because the coders hate murderbone for some reason
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
People leave when they die and are not able to play anymore, thats not a problem, its the nature of the game. The potential for mass death/chaos is part of what makes it so fun.datorangebottle wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:19 pm large-scale murderbone kills server pop, which makes any other game design pointless.
some of my favorite rounds were when some gamer was going around massacring everyone, the halls were just littered with bodies and devastation and you had to fight tooth and nail to escape alive or defeat the maniac.
Last edited by toemas on Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
- datorangebottle
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
Except for the part where it makes the game less chaotic as a consequence of having less people connected and playing on the server. Like, for that round? sure, it's pretty fun to run away from or try to plan for/outrobust the mass murderer. but next round there's gonna be like 20 people roundstart, which is going to make less people want to play, and then the server's dead for the rest of the day.toemas wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:15 pmthats not a problemdatorangebottle wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:19 pm large-scale murderbone kills server pop, which makes any other game design pointless.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
i've never seen the pop dive like that before after a murderbone, at most i've seen like a 10 player or 20 player decrease on highpop.datorangebottle wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:47 pm but next round there's gonna be like 20 people roundstart
Im sure its happened before but i dont think the entire server leaving because of a murderbone ever happens frequently enough to warrant nerfing antags into the ground to prevent it
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
I hate that the solution to round removal is ham-stringing antags instead of adding things ghosts would want to do. Even a heavily limited "respawn" as a different crew member would be a better solution then the current direction.
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
also ironically long shifts where nothing happens cause huge pop deaths too so its not really even a solution lol
- Kendrickorium
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
I have.toemas wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 11:07 pmi've never seen the pop dive like that before after a murderbone, at most i've seen like a 10 player or 20 player decrease on highpop.datorangebottle wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:47 pm but next round there's gonna be like 20 people roundstart
Im sure its happened before but i dont think the entire server leaving because of a murderbone ever happens frequently enough to warrant nerfing antags into the ground to prevent it
they are absolutely right that murderboning kills server pop, short term AND long term
back when hippiestation was in its death throes one of the things that finished it off for good was the utterly constant round after round murder of every single player playing, by ONLY 1 or 2 people, everytime they got antag. if they DIDNT get antag, they would valid hunt the fuck OUT of the antags. the admins and coders did absolutely NOTHING to combat this, and eventually everyone just stopped playing. I screamed about this on hippieforums for a solid half year before everyone just completely stopped playing and then the server died.
murderboning the entire population of a server IS only something that should happen every once in a great while. people will leave for the rest of the night or go play on another server if its constant. it's why admins are encouraged to send ERTs, and dynamic mode definitely helps combat it too a bit.
i love a good murderbone too but its something that should happen sparingly
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
yeah that sounds like it would suck but administrative intervention would be the proper solution to that and not kneecapping antags, wouldnt you agree? rounds have just been so STALE recently, i think it is mostly a player issue but certain recent code changes certainly havent helped... you have some really cool stuff like mothblocks dynamic and blade path but theres just so much lame shit like heretics reviving people and garbage fetch questsKendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:30 am i've never seen the pop dive like that before after a murderbone, at most i've seen like a 10 player or 20 player decrease on highpop.
Im sure its happened before but i dont think the entire server leaving because of a murderbone ever happens frequently enough to warrant nerfing antags into the ground to prevent it
they are absolutely right that murderboning kills server pop, short term AND long term
back when hippiestation was in its death throes one of the things that finished it off for good was the utterly constant round after round murder of every single player playing, by ONLY 1 or 2 people, everytime they got antag. if they DIDNT get antag, they would valid hunt the fuck OUT of the antags. the admins and coders did absolutely NOTHING to combat this, and eventually everyone just stopped playing. I screamed about this on hippieforums for a solid half year before everyone just completely stopped playing and then the server died.
- Kendrickorium
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
>lame shit like heretics reviving peopletoemas wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:57 amyeah that sounds like it would suck but administrative intervention would be the proper solution to that and not kneecapping antags, wouldnt you agree? rounds have just been so STALE recently, i think it is mostly a player issue but certain recent code changes certainly havent helped... you have some really cool stuff like mothblocks dynamic and blade path but theres just so much lame shit like heretics reviving people and garbage fetch questsKendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:30 am i've never seen the pop dive like that before after a murderbone, at most i've seen like a 10 player or 20 player decrease on highpop.
Im sure its happened before but i dont think the entire server leaving because of a murderbone ever happens frequently enough to warrant nerfing antags into the ground to prevent it
they are absolutely right that murderboning kills server pop, short term AND long term
back when hippiestation was in its death throes one of the things that finished it off for good was the utterly constant round after round murder of every single player playing, by ONLY 1 or 2 people, everytime they got antag. if they DIDNT get antag, they would valid hunt the fuck OUT of the antags. the admins and coders did absolutely NOTHING to combat this, and eventually everyone just stopped playing. I screamed about this on hippieforums for a solid half year before everyone just completely stopped playing and then the server died.
keeping people playing in the round in any capacity is a good thing
a mix of antag nerfs and admin intervention is the best solution, continually adding new antags works too
- Helios
- Joined: Mon May 05, 2014 5:07 pm
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
Perhaps we could offer a check on murderbone.datorangebottle wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:19 pmPossibly because large-scale murderbone kills server pop, which makes any other game design pointless.cocothegogo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:21 pm this is because the coders hate murderbone for some reason
Like some kind of machine that could revive people without the work of doctors as the bodies pile up. Some kind of cloner.
Sounds like big fish in a little pond. My intuitive response would be for other players to get on their level, but that's easier said then done. The other solution would be items or abilities that level the playing field, that can be used by the unrobust against the robust, but not vice versa.Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:30 am I have.
they are absolutely right that murderboning kills server pop, short term AND long term
back when hippiestation was in its death throes one of the things that finished it off for good was the utterly constant round after round murder of every single player playing, by ONLY 1 or 2 people, everytime they got antag. if they DIDNT get antag, they would valid hunt the fuck OUT of the antags. the admins and coders did absolutely NOTHING to combat this, and eventually everyone just stopped playing. I screamed about this on hippieforums for a solid half year before everyone just completely stopped playing and then the server died.
murderboning the entire population of a server IS only something that should happen every once in a great while. people will leave for the rest of the night or go play on another server if its constant. it's why admins are encouraged to send ERTs, and dynamic mode definitely helps combat it too a bit.
i love a good murderbone too but its something that should happen sparingly
Also: Orbiting the singularity as it slowly eats the station is extremely satisfying. I seem to remember a lot of ghosts orbiting too, instead of quitting. Blob eating the station does not compare.
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
the point of antags is that they add conflict and chaos to the round, trying to minimize round removal/death like this has only made the game less interestingKendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:54 am keeping people playing in the round in any capacity is a good thing
a mix of antag nerfs and admin intervention is the best solution, continually adding new antags works too
- Kendrickorium
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
30 people waiting in line to be cloned didnt work out so well, everHelios wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 5:27 amPerhaps we could offer a check on murderbone.datorangebottle wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:19 pmPossibly because large-scale murderbone kills server pop, which makes any other game design pointless.cocothegogo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:21 pm this is because the coders hate murderbone for some reason
Like some kind of machine that could revive people without the work of doctors as the bodies pile up. Some kind of cloner.Sounds like big fish in a little pond. My intuitive response would be for other players to get on their level, but that's easier said then done. The other solution would be items or abilities that level the playing field, that can be used by the unrobust against the robust, but not vice versa.Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:30 am I have.
they are absolutely right that murderboning kills server pop, short term AND long term
back when hippiestation was in its death throes one of the things that finished it off for good was the utterly constant round after round murder of every single player playing, by ONLY 1 or 2 people, everytime they got antag. if they DIDNT get antag, they would valid hunt the fuck OUT of the antags. the admins and coders did absolutely NOTHING to combat this, and eventually everyone just stopped playing. I screamed about this on hippieforums for a solid half year before everyone just completely stopped playing and then the server died.
murderboning the entire population of a server IS only something that should happen every once in a great while. people will leave for the rest of the night or go play on another server if its constant. it's why admins are encouraged to send ERTs, and dynamic mode definitely helps combat it too a bit.
i love a good murderbone too but its something that should happen sparingly
Also: Orbiting the singularity as it slowly eats the station is extremely satisfying. I seem to remember a lot of ghosts orbiting too, instead of quitting. Blob eating the station does not compare.
getting rid of cloning was fantastic
- Kendrickorium
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
i can cause plenty of chaos and conflict by running around with a syndicate bomb for a minute and a halftoemas wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 5:56 amthe point of antags is that they add conflict and chaos to the round, trying to minimize round removal/death like this has only made the game less interestingKendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:54 am keeping people playing in the round in any capacity is a good thing
a mix of antag nerfs and admin intervention is the best solution, continually adding new antags works too
i dont need to murder the entire server pop to do it
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
I don't see how that contradicts what I said, you seem to be misunderstanding meKendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 6:05 am i can cause plenty of chaos and conflict by running around with a syndicate bomb for a minute and a half
i dont need to murder the entire server pop to do it
- CPTANT
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
No, it just removes all the stakes and thus the tension. Why would I fear heretics? I know if they sacrifice me I will get back anyway (unless you really suck).Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:54 am>lame shit like heretics reviving peopletoemas wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:57 amyeah that sounds like it would suck but administrative intervention would be the proper solution to that and not kneecapping antags, wouldnt you agree? rounds have just been so STALE recently, i think it is mostly a player issue but certain recent code changes certainly havent helped... you have some really cool stuff like mothblocks dynamic and blade path but theres just so much lame shit like heretics reviving people and garbage fetch questsKendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:30 am i've never seen the pop dive like that before after a murderbone, at most i've seen like a 10 player or 20 player decrease on highpop.
Im sure its happened before but i dont think the entire server leaving because of a murderbone ever happens frequently enough to warrant nerfing antags into the ground to prevent it
they are absolutely right that murderboning kills server pop, short term AND long term
back when hippiestation was in its death throes one of the things that finished it off for good was the utterly constant round after round murder of every single player playing, by ONLY 1 or 2 people, everytime they got antag. if they DIDNT get antag, they would valid hunt the fuck OUT of the antags. the admins and coders did absolutely NOTHING to combat this, and eventually everyone just stopped playing. I screamed about this on hippieforums for a solid half year before everyone just completely stopped playing and then the server died.
keeping people playing in the round in any capacity is a good thing
a mix of antag nerfs and admin intervention is the best solution, continually adding new antags works too
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
- Rageguy505
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
I dislike the heretic change, before there was the substantial crime of murder that you could easily tie to a heretic. Now their main crime is just being valid and that's really boring to deal with.
And the mirror shield nerf makes sense since slugs and buckshot were removed. Security has seen nerfs with their ballistic weapons, but it dosent matter a whole lot since they still got the baton.
And the mirror shield nerf makes sense since slugs and buckshot were removed. Security has seen nerfs with their ballistic weapons, but it dosent matter a whole lot since they still got the baton.
- Capsandi
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
I don't understand where this idea that space station 13 being a paranoia-laden round based roleplaying game set against the backdrop of a nonsensical metal deathtrap masquerading as a space station comes from. Isn't it just a job simulator chatroom wherein every 40 minutes you walk to a spaceship which restarts the round?
Lower your tone with me if your tracked play time doesn't look like this:Timonk wrote:You have clearly never seen his dickWesoda25 wrote:Genuinely think they should be blacklisted.
Flatulent wrote:of course you can change religion doing it while islamic however makes you lose your head from happiness
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
aren't you the guy who attacked a blob player as a heretic?
no wonder the antags win rate is down
no wonder the antags win rate is down
- sinfulbliss
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
Ha
Blob actually isn't listed here because they're one of the few antags that aren't nerfed, in fact they've become even stronger after Z-levels were added because they can choose difficult-to-access lower Z levels and then break the stairs preventing people from accessing them.
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- Armhulen
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
Just thinking out loud here maybe we should have something between "every round is a server wiper" and "every round nothing happens"
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
I find that antags are just slow. Prog antags take ages to build up and even when they manage to a lot of the tools they unlock are useless.
Stealth is pretty much the only way to play which is why so many rounds feel kinda boring.
Stealth is pretty much the only way to play which is why so many rounds feel kinda boring.
- Shadowflame909
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
chocolate_bickie wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:49 pm I find that antags are just slow. Prog antags take ages to build up and even when they manage to a lot of the tools they unlock are useless.
Stealth is pretty much the only way to play which is why so many rounds feel kinda boring.
designer didnt like to be e-sworded at roundstart
so now every roundstart you can guarantee nothing will happen
They succeeded..but was it good for the game?
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- NecromancerAnne
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
I think it's okay in moderation. Heretics are pretty fighty, or can be, relatively early if they can get at rifts, but its strictly 1v1. Tots are maybe the slowest right now.
I now have an important question. Has anyone seen a changeling for the last few months? Did they get disabled? Whats up?
I now have an important question. Has anyone seen a changeling for the last few months? Did they get disabled? Whats up?
- san7890
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
I was changeling last week and it was still fine.
Simultaneously making both the best and worst jokes on the internet. I like looking at maps and code. Learn how to map today!. You may rate me here.
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
I feel the urge to play changeling every now and again and get up to dumb shit, because I know I can do things that risk my own safety and be entirely fine. Because it's funny.
And I don't mean in a fighting sense, I mean 'boy I sure do love drinking sulphuric acid' funny.
And I don't mean in a fighting sense, I mean 'boy I sure do love drinking sulphuric acid' funny.
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
I agree. I remember grenade spearing people as changeling because I could literally just regenerate and do it again.NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:59 am I feel the urge to play changeling every now and again and get up to dumb shit, because I know I can do things that risk my own safety and be entirely fine. Because it's funny.
And I don't mean in a fighting sense, I mean 'boy I sure do love drinking sulphuric acid' funny.
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
There was one very annoying ling once that got the RD hardsuit and then suicide bombed everyone and just got up again because the suit has bomb protection. He literally did this with 6 maxcaps and there wasn't jack anyone could do about it because everyone who knew it was him doing the bombing just got blown up.chocolate_bickie wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 11:45 amI agree. I remember grenade spearing people as changeling because I could literally just regenerate and do it again.NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:59 am I feel the urge to play changeling every now and again and get up to dumb shit, because I know I can do things that risk my own safety and be entirely fine. Because it's funny.
And I don't mean in a fighting sense, I mean 'boy I sure do love drinking sulphuric acid' funny.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
traitors and heretics are more common because those both have latejoin/midround while changeling is roundstart only
Weston Echard on Sybil
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
I prefer weaker antags than attempts to remove violence from antags (Via code like Heretic shadow realm, or anti-murderboning polices.)
The seen problem is that people being absolutely destroyed by antags every all to often.
The solution that makes the most sense is to make them weaker, instead of limiting their agency.
The seen problem is that people being absolutely destroyed by antags every all to often.
The solution that makes the most sense is to make them weaker, instead of limiting their agency.
- Sincerely itseasytosee
See you later
See you later
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
Also if terry players just played the game less optimally this wouldn't be a problem just saying.
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
"No, the players are wrong!" is a mortal blow to game development.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
Level of english issue.
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
snarky response:We have been doing it that way for the past 5 years so what's changed?
People playing this game as if it was a league of legends MOBA are literally making the game unfun for themselves, this game will never be well balanced because it's a sandbox game it's simply not possible.
Playing to win actually saps your own enjoyment of the product.
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
The same response applies to them too
Time to kill people more imo
Time to kill people more imo
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
Players haven't been playing to win anymore than they have 2 years ago. The difference is after several nerfs players that do this affect the rounds of antags even more.oranges wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:11 pm People playing this game as if it was a league of legends MOBA are literally making the game unfun for themselves, this game will never be well balanced because it's a sandbox game it's simply not possible.
Playing to win actually saps your own enjoyment of the product.
If all these nerfs were initially in the interest of balance then clearly you do care about balance at least to some degree.
Spoiler:
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
Best changeling gimmick recently for me is griefing my target by pretending to be strangers.NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:59 am I feel the urge to play changeling every now and again and get up to dumb shit, because I know I can do things that risk my own safety and be entirely fine. Because it's funny.
And I don't mean in a fighting sense, I mean 'boy I sure do love drinking sulphuric acid' funny.
I've done it twice so far where I stealth dna sting like 20 different people, remove all my clothes and carry a generic leather bag. Then I just use the shapeshift + fake clothes and welder bomb/chainsaw/drill my target until they're a paranoid wreck when anyone gets close.
Great for paranoia and false arrests! (and I dont get gibbed because no one knows im a changeling. They all think im just a dead griefer)
Going Loud will grant you a short round. But generate lots of tension and excitement for a bit. While going stealth will make people wonder why there's such a big greytiding problem. But grant you the epic greentext.
► Show Spoiler
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
Then why block the return of the more RP, sandbox style old traitor in favour of the mechanically driven prog traitor that is way more railroaded into a pay to win style?oranges wrote: ↑Sun Sep 11, 2022 10:11 pmsnarky response:We have been doing it that way for the past 5 years so what's changed?
People playing this game as if it was a league of legends MOBA are literally making the game unfun for themselves, this game will never be well balanced because it's a sandbox game it's simply not possible.
Playing to win actually saps your own enjoyment of the product.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:21 pm The rules exist to create the biggest possible chance of a cool shift of SS13. They don't exist to allow admins to create the most boring interpretation of SS13.
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Re: The Antag Nerfening
Because we had severe problems with managing the destructive scaling of antagonists, and people won't stop abusing all the worst combinations to cause maximum damage in the first 5 minutes of the round.
I would have preferred not to but I really don't believe we had a choice.
I would have preferred not to but I really don't believe we had a choice.
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