I dont trust logs
Forum rules
Only Certified™ Players™ may post in here.
If you are not able to post in here, you are not a Certified™ Player™. Play on a mainline /tg/ game server to gain posting powers in this forum. (certified gamers are only calculated once per day)
Only Certified™ Players™ may post in here.
If you are not able to post in here, you are not a Certified™ Player™. Play on a mainline /tg/ game server to gain posting powers in this forum. (certified gamers are only calculated once per day)
-
- Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:08 pm
- Byond Username: MooCow12
I dont trust logs
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34678
He could be lieing he could be telling the truth.
But at the end of the day, the code that logs everything for admins is written by contributors and can have bugs in it, infact its most likely to have very very old bugs because of the fact that logs are very often not used within play and are more backend away where the vast majority of the community can still take a look at but only a small minority of us actually care to.
He could be lieing he could be telling the truth.
But at the end of the day, the code that logs everything for admins is written by contributors and can have bugs in it, infact its most likely to have very very old bugs because of the fact that logs are very often not used within play and are more backend away where the vast majority of the community can still take a look at but only a small minority of us actually care to.
Last edited by MooCow12 on Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
List of my favorite TG Staff.
Spoiler:
- kinnebian
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:15 pm
- Byond Username: Kinnebian
- Location: answering irelands call
- Vekter
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
- Byond Username: Vekter
- Location: Fucking around with the engine.
Re: I dont trust logs
I can safely say that I've never seen a situation where bolting or unbolting a door failed to log.
There's also reason to believe that they are lying here given that they were explicitly trying to hunt the heretic beforehand and were told by the captain that they were updating their laws to remove their human status.
Also, the argument that "our code is made by volunteers so it's possible it was bugged" is dumb and could be applied to literally any instance of anything happening ever in our codebase. That's like saying that someone who threw a body in the SM shouldn't be held responsible because it's possible his game bugged out and turned on throw intent without him realizing it.
There's also reason to believe that they are lying here given that they were explicitly trying to hunt the heretic beforehand and were told by the captain that they were updating their laws to remove their human status.
Also, the argument that "our code is made by volunteers so it's possible it was bugged" is dumb and could be applied to literally any instance of anything happening ever in our codebase. That's like saying that someone who threw a body in the SM shouldn't be held responsible because it's possible his game bugged out and turned on throw intent without him realizing it.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
-
- Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:08 pm
- Byond Username: MooCow12
Re: I dont trust logs
I just want to clarify im not making an arguement to explicitly defend them I just have issues with how little logs are scrutinized and tested, I would do it myself if I knew how to quickly do that on a private server.
Last edited by MooCow12 on Tue Aug 15, 2023 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
List of my favorite TG Staff.
Spoiler:
-
- Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:08 pm
- Byond Username: MooCow12
Re: I dont trust logs
Funfact I bombed my teammate as a rev once because their "R" icon didnt appear next to their head and the admin (omega) had to inform me that I just rr`d a teammate xd.
Luckily i was recording.
List of my favorite TG Staff.
Spoiler:
- Vekter
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
- Byond Username: Vekter
- Location: Fucking around with the engine.
Re: I dont trust logs
Logs are usually taken as law because the code behind logs is relatively simple. If a log fails, 99% of the time it's because the code for whatever you're doing failed and didn't actually take effect, so whatever was trying to be logged didn't actually happen.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
-
- Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:08 pm
- Byond Username: MooCow12
Re: I dont trust logs
One of my bug fixes was literally just a simple math error ,-, people make mistakes but i dont doubt logs arnt complex.
List of my favorite TG Staff.
Spoiler:
- iamgoofball
- Github User
- Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:50 pm
- Byond Username: Iamgoofball
- Github Username: Iamgoofball
Re: I dont trust logs
logging code is extremely low level, if it's broken there are bigger problems in a round like the master controller being probably dead
- Jacquerel
- Code Maintainer
- Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:10 pm
- Byond Username: Becquerel
Re: I dont trust logs
I don't bother reading anyone's posts because they might have made a human error and typed the wrong words, I just intuit what I think they posted.
- iwishforducks
- Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:48 pm
- Byond Username: Iwishforducks
Re: I dont trust logs
it's more likely they ctrl clicked the door and didn't realize that it was bolted in the first place. after all, it was their borg who bolted it, not themselves. there's also no audio queue as AI on whether or not it was a bolt or unbolt. i can see how someone can mistakenly unbolt the thing. it's also completely possible the bolt lights were off, but i don't know if logs would show that.
there's also a time gap of 15 minutes between the AI unbolting the door and the captain uploading the law. i really don't think they unbolted it deliberately.
there's also a time gap of 15 minutes between the AI unbolting the door and the captain uploading the law. i really don't think they unbolted it deliberately.
im gay (and also play the moth “bugger”)
- Vekter
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:25 pm
- Byond Username: Vekter
- Location: Fucking around with the engine.
Re: I dont trust logs
Probably not, but the issue was that the captain explicitly said he was going to change the AI's laws to make someone non-human and the AI did nothing to actually prevent it.iwishforducks wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:05 pm it's more likely they ctrl clicked the door and didn't realize that it was bolted in the first place. after all, it was their borg who bolted it, not themselves. there's also no audio queue as AI on whether or not it was a bolt or unbolt. i can see how someone can mistakenly unbolt the thing. it's also completely possible the bolt lights were off, but i don't know if logs would show that.
there's also a time gap of 15 minutes between the AI unbolting the door and the captain uploading the law. i really don't think they unbolted it deliberately.
AliasTakuto wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:11 pm As for the ear replacing stuff, you can ask Anne but I don't think this is what I was banned for. If I was all I can say is "Sorry for being hilarious"...
Omega_DarkPotato wrote:This sucks, dude.
Spoiler:
-
- Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:05 pm
- Byond Username: BlueMemesauce
Re: I dont trust logs
The captain has a door remote to unbolt doors so its not like bolting the doors even matters to the appeal, it wouldn't have stopped the captain anyway. The only thing bolting does is stop the RD from breaking in I think, since the captain has a remote and the CE has tools.
Also, by saying "if you had at least done something to attempt to stop him it would have been better, but you did nothing for the full minute leading to the law change", I assume the admin means that the AI should have turned off the apc or turned on the turrets? But upload turret fights and apc fights are really annoying, so it's dumb to ban them for not wanting to do that. It would have just prolonged the inevitable, since the captain would probably sit there screaming until someone came for backup and uploaded the law.
unban James566!!
Also, by saying "if you had at least done something to attempt to stop him it would have been better, but you did nothing for the full minute leading to the law change", I assume the admin means that the AI should have turned off the apc or turned on the turrets? But upload turret fights and apc fights are really annoying, so it's dumb to ban them for not wanting to do that. It would have just prolonged the inevitable, since the captain would probably sit there screaming until someone came for backup and uploaded the law.
unban James566!!
- conrad
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:57 am
- Byond Username: Conrad Thunderbunch
- Location: 𝑀𝑜𝒾𝓈𝓉
Re: I dont trust logs
He isn't even banned anymore dude it was a one day ban lmaoBlueMemesauce wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:31 pm The captain has a door remote to unbolt doors so its not like bolting the doors even matters to the appeal, it wouldn't have stopped the captain anyway. The only thing bolting does is stop the RD from breaking in I think, since the captain has a remote and the CE has tools.
Also, by saying "if you had at least done something to attempt to stop him it would have been better, but you did nothing for the full minute leading to the law change", I assume the admin means that the AI should have turned off the apc or turned on the turrets? But upload turret fights and apc fights are really annoying, so it's dumb to ban them for not wanting to do that. It would have just prolonged the inevitable, since the captain would probably sit there screaming until someone came for backup and uploaded the law.
unban James566!!
I normally go by Ricky. Tell me how'd I do here. ⋆ 𝒯𝒶𝓀𝒾𝓃𝑔 𝒶 𝓈𝒶𝒷𝒶𝓉𝒾𝒸𝒶𝓁. ⋆
And now a word from our sponsors:
And now a word from our sponsors:
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
- iwishforducks
- Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:48 pm
- Byond Username: Iwishforducks
Re: I dont trust logs
well bolting the door to the AI upload and turning on the turrets is about all you can do, really. which is what they said they did.Vekter wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:15 pmProbably not, but the issue was that the captain explicitly said he was going to change the AI's laws to make someone non-human and the AI did nothing to actually prevent it.iwishforducks wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:05 pm it's more likely they ctrl clicked the door and didn't realize that it was bolted in the first place. after all, it was their borg who bolted it, not themselves. there's also no audio queue as AI on whether or not it was a bolt or unbolt. i can see how someone can mistakenly unbolt the thing. it's also completely possible the bolt lights were off, but i don't know if logs would show that.
there's also a time gap of 15 minutes between the AI unbolting the door and the captain uploading the law. i really don't think they unbolted it deliberately.
im gay (and also play the moth “bugger”)
- Misdoubtful
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 7:03 pm
- Byond Username: Misdoubtful
- Location: Delivering hugs!
- conrad
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:57 am
- Byond Username: Conrad Thunderbunch
- Location: 𝑀𝑜𝒾𝓈𝓉
Re: I dont trust logs
If you're curious, the other 10% is spawning bears.Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:50 am If logs lie and 90% of what admins go off of is logs, we're screwed.
I normally go by Ricky. Tell me how'd I do here. ⋆ 𝒯𝒶𝓀𝒾𝓃𝑔 𝒶 𝓈𝒶𝒷𝒶𝓉𝒾𝒸𝒶𝓁. ⋆
And now a word from our sponsors:
And now a word from our sponsors:
Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pmThe Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:52 pmIt would somehow manage to pick Birdshot Station for headmin if we did that
-
- Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:18 pm
- Byond Username: AccountName5
Re: I dont trust logs
Dude's just lying and is probably a child. There's no way someone can be that unaware of everything, accidentally unbolting airlocks twice, accidentally reminding the captain their dehumanization laws failed, and accidentally let the captain upload. All that while hunting a heretic, then immediately killing it when receiving the law.
- Fikou
- In-Game Game Master
- Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:38 am
- Byond Username: Fikou
- Github Username: Fikou
- Location: Dreamland
Re: I dont trust logs
Logs can be wrong, my first ban on SS13 was during the summer ball where the grenade wrongs were broken and showed me as throwing a gasnade into the crowd when i was on the other side of the map. People can fuck stuff like order up in logs, putting attacker as victim and vice versa etc. But it's rare, and usually fixed pretty quickly, and for stuff like bolting doors, there isn't really anything to fuck up. you just have an ai mob and a door.
Do NOT press this button.
Spoiler:
- datorangebottle
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:53 am
- Byond Username: Datorangebottle
Re: I dont trust logs
Lots of untrustworthy types in this thread. Just look at 'em.
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
- zergking
- Joined: Tue May 09, 2023 7:52 am
- Byond Username: Zergking
Re: I dont trust logs
I don't trust the admins. Literally the biggest validhunters out there.
- Archie700
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:56 am
- Byond Username: Archie700
Re: I dont trust logs
Roll for Perception.datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:46 am Lots of untrustworthy types in this thread. Just look at 'em.
logs.jpg
- dirk_mcblade
- Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:54 am
- Byond Username: Dirk_McBlade
Re: I dont trust logs
I really don't like validhunter AIs
- datorangebottle
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:53 am
- Byond Username: Datorangebottle
Re: I dont trust logs
What does this get me?Archie700 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:44 amRoll for Perception.datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:46 am Lots of untrustworthy types in this thread. Just look at 'em.
logs.jpg
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
- Archie700
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:56 am
- Byond Username: Archie700
Re: I dont trust logs
The logs seem perfectly normal.datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:12 amWhat does this get me?Archie700 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:44 amRoll for Perception.datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:46 am Lots of untrustworthy types in this thread. Just look at 'em.
logs.jpg
dice.jpg
- datorangebottle
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:53 am
- Byond Username: Datorangebottle
Re: I dont trust logs
I cast magic missile at the log.Archie700 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:36 amThe logs seem perfectly normal.datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:12 amWhat does this get me?Archie700 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:44 amRoll for Perception.datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:46 am Lots of untrustworthy types in this thread. Just look at 'em.
logs.jpg
dice.jpg
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:16 pm I highly doubt any other admin on the team would have given you this chance, except maybe Kieth because his brain worms are almost as bad as mine.
Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pm At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?
Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:00 pm I'm sorry, can we get a real player to resolve this appeal? I don't like this trial player. They can't even set their own name.
sinfulbliss wrote: ↑I almost prefer Rave's AI-generated "We cannot accept this appeal at this time. If you would like assistance appealing in the future, please dial 1-800-1984-1488."
Pandarsenic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 2:25 pm I think we can all agree that someone throwing a reverse revolver at Zyb as a secret test of character, and Zyb immediately fucking himself with it, is the best thing we all could have received for Christmas this year
- Archie700
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:56 am
- Byond Username: Archie700
Re: I dont trust logs
The logs shapeshift to their original form, a group of pissed off red dragons.datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:37 amI cast magic missile at the log.Archie700 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:36 amThe logs seem perfectly normal.datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 7:12 amWhat does this get me?Archie700 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 5:44 amRoll for Perception.datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:46 am Lots of untrustworthy types in this thread. Just look at 'em.
logs.jpg
dice.jpg
- dirk_mcblade
- Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:54 am
- Byond Username: Dirk_McBlade
Re: I dont trust logs
Those don't sound like normal logs at all, I thought we agreed that we roll natty 20s outside of combat situations.
- Archie700
- In-Game Admin
- Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:56 am
- Byond Username: Archie700
Re: I dont trust logs
....dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 8:13 am Those don't sound like normal logs at all, I thought we agreed that we roll natty 20s outside of combat situations.
*rolls*
There are 20 red dragons.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Screemonster