why is readding Gang so taboo?

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PKPenguin321
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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby PKPenguin321 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:40 am #487972

iamgoofball wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:"fixed"

did you play it?

it fixed:
1. the core issue with conversion modes, force conversion, by replacing it with volunteered signups for families
2. mass murdering everyone not associated with you because dead people can't rep your family's colors and alive people can join your family, and people won't want to join your family if your family is mass murdering people
3. tagging turf being useless since the winning family is decided by points gained overall and tagging turf is a serious benefit points wise, along with tagging another family's turf as to encourage breaking stalemates and starting turf wars
4. security just killing everyone that isn't security because implants don't matter due to signing up for a family being voluntary and not forced
5. rounds lasting way too fucking long, because the gamemode was locked to 30-45 minutes max via the gamemode itself

overall, it was a far better gamemode than Gang ever was

i did play it and frankly while the concept is nice the voluntary conversion bit was kind of a mess ("FREE ANTAG??? SIGN ME UP!" --everyone) and not very conducive to good gameplay
wish that part was different
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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby Gamarr » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:45 am #487975

I don't think its Gang so much in of itself but rather there is a general unease at the concept of 'more TDM' modes.

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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby iamgoofball » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:46 am #487976

PKPenguin321 wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:"fixed"

did you play it?

it fixed:
1. the core issue with conversion modes, force conversion, by replacing it with volunteered signups for families
2. mass murdering everyone not associated with you because dead people can't rep your family's colors and alive people can join your family, and people won't want to join your family if your family is mass murdering people
3. tagging turf being useless since the winning family is decided by points gained overall and tagging turf is a serious benefit points wise, along with tagging another family's turf as to encourage breaking stalemates and starting turf wars
4. security just killing everyone that isn't security because implants don't matter due to signing up for a family being voluntary and not forced
5. rounds lasting way too fucking long, because the gamemode was locked to 30-45 minutes max via the gamemode itself

overall, it was a far better gamemode than Gang ever was

i did play it and frankly while the concept is nice the voluntary conversion bit was kind of a mess ("FREE ANTAG??? SIGN ME UP!" --everyone) and not very conducive to good gameplay
wish that part was different

voluntary conversion is the only way to have a team based gamemode that doesn't start with everyone already assigned a team.

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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby Dr_bee » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:22 am #488233

iamgoofball wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:"fixed"

did you play it?

it fixed:
1. the core issue with conversion modes, force conversion, by replacing it with volunteered signups for families
2. mass murdering everyone not associated with you because dead people can't rep your family's colors and alive people can join your family, and people won't want to join your family if your family is mass murdering people
3. tagging turf being useless since the winning family is decided by points gained overall and tagging turf is a serious benefit points wise, along with tagging another family's turf as to encourage breaking stalemates and starting turf wars
4. security just killing everyone that isn't security because implants don't matter due to signing up for a family being voluntary and not forced
5. rounds lasting way too fucking long, because the gamemode was locked to 30-45 minutes max via the gamemode itself

overall, it was a far better gamemode than Gang ever was

i did play it and frankly while the concept is nice the voluntary conversion bit was kind of a mess ("FREE ANTAG??? SIGN ME UP!" --everyone) and not very conducive to good gameplay
wish that part was different

voluntary conversion is the only way to have a team based gamemode that doesn't start with everyone already assigned a team.


Voluntary conversion still has the win-more mechanic of snowball conversion as there is really no reason to join a weaker team. consider a way to incentivize joining the smaller gangs over everyone joining one.

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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby Yakumo_Chen » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:47 am #488241

Gangs was bad because it tries to do what cult did except it replaces everything with "guns". Guns make for shitty balance and security hates it when anyone else has guns because most of the edge of being security is having access to that.

Gang shouldn't be readded because like every other conversion game mode, it's just a worse version of revolution, which is the most pure form of conversion game modes. Conversion doesn't need a gimmick, when conversion itself is the gimmick.
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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby iamgoofball » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:45 am #488253

Yakumo_Chen wrote:Gangs was bad because it tries to do what cult did except it replaces everything with "guns". Guns make for shitty balance and security hates it when anyone else has guns because most of the edge of being security is having access to that.

Gang shouldn't be readded because like every other conversion game mode, it's just a worse version of revolution, which is the most pure form of conversion game modes. Conversion doesn't need a gimmick, when conversion itself is the gimmick.

can't believe I'm agreeing with primo shithead yakumo

except not really because forced conversion is dumb as shit

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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby NoxVS » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:00 pm #488274

iamgoofball wrote:
Yakumo_Chen wrote:Gangs was bad because it tries to do what cult did except it replaces everything with "guns". Guns make for shitty balance and security hates it when anyone else has guns because most of the edge of being security is having access to that.

Gang shouldn't be readded because like every other conversion game mode, it's just a worse version of revolution, which is the most pure form of conversion game modes. Conversion doesn't need a gimmick, when conversion itself is the gimmick.

can't believe I'm agreeing with primo shithead yakumo

except not really because forced conversion is dumb as shit

So is voluntary conversion. Who would ever turn down being an antag?
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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby Shadowflame909 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:14 pm #488279

NoxVS wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:
Yakumo_Chen wrote:Gangs was bad because it tries to do what cult did except it replaces everything with "guns". Guns make for shitty balance and security hates it when anyone else has guns because most of the edge of being security is having access to that.

Gang shouldn't be readded because like every other conversion game mode, it's just a worse version of revolution, which is the most pure form of conversion game modes. Conversion doesn't need a gimmick, when conversion itself is the gimmick.

can't believe I'm agreeing with primo shithead yakumo

except not really because forced conversion is dumb as shit

So is voluntary conversion. Who would ever turn down being an antag?



Does Devil count as precedent?

But in that situation, even people don't take it because dying becomes perma-death. And what the devil can offer is very limited.
BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby Gamarr » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:14 pm #488287

NoxVS wrote:So is voluntary conversion. Who would ever turn down being an antag?

Same shit all the time so I walk out an airlock during rev and such. 'Antag' is meaningless other than the toys you get during it.

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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby PKPenguin321 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:15 pm #488311

Shadowflame909 wrote:
NoxVS wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:
Yakumo_Chen wrote:Gangs was bad because it tries to do what cult did except it replaces everything with "guns". Guns make for shitty balance and security hates it when anyone else has guns because most of the edge of being security is having access to that.

Gang shouldn't be readded because like every other conversion game mode, it's just a worse version of revolution, which is the most pure form of conversion game modes. Conversion doesn't need a gimmick, when conversion itself is the gimmick.

can't believe I'm agreeing with primo shithead yakumo

except not really because forced conversion is dumb as shit

So is voluntary conversion. Who would ever turn down being an antag?



Does Devil count as precedent?

But in that situation, even people don't take it because dying becomes perma-death. And what the devil can offer is very limited.

What planet do you live on? EVERYBODY takes devil deals whenever devil is ran
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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby Shadowflame909 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:22 am #488503

I wish what you said was right my last devil round.

The Curator actually researched my Bane, brought me to the chapel and forced me into a duel with them. Whilst getting sec to murder me so I wouldn't revive.

The idiot security took me out of the chapel, which allowed me to revive.

The only people who actually took the contract that round, was cargo because they could make infinite money and the HoS. Because they got killed by a ling.
BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Apr 07, 2019 10:37 am #488504

Shadowflame909 wrote:I wish what you said was right my last devil round.

The Curator actually researched my Bane, brought me to the chapel and forced me into a duel with them. Whilst getting sec to murder me so I wouldn't revive.

The idiot security took me out of the chapel, which allowed me to revive.

The only people who actually took the contract that round, was cargo because they could make infinite money and the HoS. Because they got killed by a ling.

Working as intended

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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby Kierany9 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:48 pm #488536

Gangs is a mode that can produce incredible rounds but is bogged down by player incompetence. Unless you can skill match the three bosses (antag elo lol), it's a miracle when a gang round doesn't end one of two ways:
1) One boss recruits the right people and it becomes revs but with the dominator.
2) All the gangs are mentally handicapped and get smacked by security immediately.
Doesn't help that every PR pushed seemed to actively make the mode worse, either by overbuffing the gangs to a ridiculous point or reducing any motive to not go lone wolf gung-ho immediately.

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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby InsaneHyena » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:45 am #489090

remember when Joan intentionally testmerged broken updates to Gang to fuck over Robustin?

That was pretty passive-aggressive and mean.

Also, I think that one of improvements that can be definitely made to gang is removing implant breakers. It helps with snowballing greatly, especially if you convert sec.
And I also think that clock cult sucks and should be removed from the code.
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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby confused rock » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:13 pm #489754

worst case scenario for gang:
all but one gang dies, becomes fairly similar to rev, but with fewer and more well armed revs, similarly to cult but with far simpler mechanics

what was wrong with that again?
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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby Dr_bee » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:38 pm #489817

InsaneHyena wrote:
remember when Joan intentionally testmerged broken updates to Gang to fuck over Robustin?

That was pretty passive-aggressive and mean.

Also, I think that one of improvements that can be definitely made to gang is removing implant breakers. It helps with snowballing greatly, especially if you convert sec.


Ways of bypassing implants are lame. Why have a defense that can be easily broken or doesnt work at all *cough*bloodcult*cough*.

There already exists a way to remove implants anyway, its called kidnapping and surgically removing the implant, or killing the person and then converting the fresh clone.

Conversion antags should really do what revs does right now when it comes to implants, and that is fight to control cargo to prevent the implants from coming in the first place.

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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby kevinz000 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:18 am #490458

Sometimes I want to code gang again

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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby Yakumo_Chen » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:13 pm #490522

confused rock wrote:worst case scenario for gang:
all but one gang dies, becomes fairly similar to rev, but with fewer and more well armed revs, similarly to cult but with far simpler mechanics

what was wrong with that again?

There's a huge gap between 10 assistants armed with spears, soap, and stun prods, and 8 assistants with Uzis, sketchkins, and a portable turret, and one of them is the Head of Personnel.

Most shifts don't see more than 5 security, if you're lucky, in comparison.
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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby PKPenguin321 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:25 am #490540

Yakumo_Chen wrote:
confused rock wrote:worst case scenario for gang:
all but one gang dies, becomes fairly similar to rev, but with fewer and more well armed revs, similarly to cult but with far simpler mechanics

what was wrong with that again?

There's a huge gap between 10 assistants armed with spears, soap, and stun prods, and 8 assistants with Uzis, sketchkins, and a portable turret, and one of them is the Head of Personnel.

please dont cite robustin-gang mechanics like turrets that were in for 1/100th of the mode's lifespan and wouldn't be readded. it's just dishonest
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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby iamgoofball » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:41 am #490541

kevinz000 wrote:Sometimes I want to code gang again

ah yes, and do the classic kevin method of over-designing it and making it by default the same mode it was before? Fuck off. Families was the only good gang-styled gamemode there ever was and ever will be.

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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby PKPenguin321 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:49 am #490545

iamgoofball wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:Sometimes I want to code gang again

ah yes, and do the classic kevin method of over-designing it and making it by default the same mode it was before? Fuck off. Families was the only good gang-styled gamemode there ever was and ever will be.

this is like watching cannibalism
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
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tell the best admin how good he is
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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby iamgoofball » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:55 am #490553

PKPenguin321 wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:
kevinz000 wrote:Sometimes I want to code gang again

ah yes, and do the classic kevin method of over-designing it and making it by default the same mode it was before? Fuck off. Families was the only good gang-styled gamemode there ever was and ever will be.

this is like watching cannibalism

lol if you haven't done code reviews on shit kevin makes when he gets all whiny buttblasted that i had a good idea, check out his guncrafting with at least like 30 lists and nonstop copypasta if u wanna see real shitcode

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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby confused rock » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:12 pm #490638

why do techwebs exist again literally turns science into clicking the right thing the ai could fucking do techwebs jesus it's fucking brainless and all it does is mean nobody ever gets the janitor cart upgrades and department protolathes are nice but depart protolathes AND techwebs at the same time means sci doesn't have to put effort into research or distribute the rewards
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Re: why is readding Gang so taboo?

Postby cedarbridge » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:05 am #490662

confused rock wrote:why do techwebs exist again literally turns science into clicking the right thing the ai could fucking do techwebs jesus it's fucking brainless and all it does is mean nobody ever gets the janitor cart upgrades and department protolathes are nice but depart protolathes AND techwebs at the same time means sci doesn't have to put effort into research or distribute the rewards

I've never had an issue getting the things I request from research.

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