Psychologist feedback thread.
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Psychologist feedback thread.
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/49964
This just got merged, please share your feedback or ideas here.
This just got merged, please share your feedback or ideas here.
- trollbreeder
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Let me get this out of the way first.
Is this going to be the medbay lawyer, essentially?
Is this going to be the medbay lawyer, essentially?
I'm a dumb feature coder, also a bad (but not terrible) coderspriter and a semi-good mapper and an enforcer of standards.
you can find me playing when i'm not coding or playing csgo as cleans-the-house on event hall, sybil or manuel
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you can find me playing when i'm not coding or playing csgo as cleans-the-house on event hall, sybil or manuel
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- Armhulen
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Looks like it for the moment, though they could work on setting up a lot of ways to get happier in their office or something. It's attached to some kind of idea of mechanic to fix unlike the lawyertrollbreeder wrote:Let me get this out of the way first.
Is this going to be the medbay lawyer, essentially?
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Read the PR.trollbreeder wrote:Let me get this out of the way first.
Is this going to be the medbay lawyer, essentially?
the PR wrote:Question: Isn't this just lawyer 2.0?
Answer: Yes, and that is 100% the intention, for now. This is an RP job any way you slice it. I believe this PR stands both on its own merits purely as an RP job, and also to help lay the foundation for future work from others to flesh out a Psychologist/Psychiatrist job with actual unique mechanics. We have even had prior and ongoing work done to that end. #48403 I've spoken to the author of this and he has expressed approval. With the groundwork laid by this PR in terms of job, access, and area code, as well as standardizing a spot for psych in future mapping, I believe this will make his or anyone else's job infinitely easier and allow them to focus solely or at least mostly on introducing cool mechanics.
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
I made an oopsie and the CMO and HoP don't have access to the psych office on highpop currently, but a fix is up.
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/50139
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/50139
- wesoda25
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Would you be averse to me adding a small medical cabinet/bag to the psychologist locker, which contains a limited amount of Happiness and Psicodine (maybe other chems like LSD or something)? I think it could add flavor, but I think there were some arguments against it which is why I ask.
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Personally, not averse at all, no.wesoda25 wrote:Would you be averse to me adding a small medical cabinet/bag to the psychologist locker, which contains a limited amount of Happiness and Psicodine (maybe other chems like LSD or something)? I think it could add flavor, but I think there were some arguments against it which is why I ask.
This was actually part of my original plan, giving specifically some psicodine, happiness, and mindbreaker pills to the job either in their locker or backpack at round start, but I backed off because the natural next question is "why aren't they just deferring to medbay to get those pills?" or further "why don't they just have pharma access?" (I did NOT want, at present, to give the silly RP job access to the clandestine bomb/poison factory).
But if you think it fits and you want to fight any opposition to it, please do, could be a lot of fun.
Once all this settles in I'm toying with the idea of PRing role restricting the hypnoflash to the Psychologist.
- Shadowflame909
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
My thoughts on it is that an assistant getting a custom job title would equivalently be the same thing
there's nothing here.
there's nothing here.
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Thanks for your valuable feedback, but this was clearly addressed in the PR text.Shadowflame909 wrote:rp job bad
- Kel
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
you asked for feedback, thus people are giving their reactions. it doesnt matter if this was intended to be medical lawyer or not, people are giving feedback. the word you are looking for is criticism.
to address the change itself, it is inoffensive, per design. practically, its worse at its job than the chaplain, who can actually dish out good moods mechanically, and already moonlighted as the mental care role on the station.
to address the change itself, it is inoffensive, per design. practically, its worse at its job than the chaplain, who can actually dish out good moods mechanically, and already moonlighted as the mental care role on the station.
- Shadowflame909
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
What other kind of feedback are you looking forannoyinggreencatgirl wrote:Thanks for your valuable feedback, but this was clearly addressed in the PR text.Shadowflame909 wrote:rp job bad
Access requirements?
There's nothing here!
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
feelings after playing the job or playing medical with the job filled perhapsShadowflame909 wrote:What other kind of feedback are you looking for
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
I think this is a good addition.
- BeeSting12
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Should give him some medicines that give bonus mood to prescribe. Also name the job psychiatrist since they can legally prescribe medication.
- Denton
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Basically, I merged it to make it easier for other people to establish a proper mental trauma/psychology framework (like in https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/48403).trollbreeder wrote:Is this going to be the medbay lawyer, essentially?
Right now, the job will probably mostly see use on Manuel though.
- nianjiilical
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
the fact that people actually do play chaplain/lawyer tells me theres plenty of room for this to exist
plus psychologist is something that actually would make sense on these god forsaken stations
just gave to come up with relatively harmlessly gimmicky shit for them
plus psychologist is something that actually would make sense on these god forsaken stations
just gave to come up with relatively harmlessly gimmicky shit for them
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admin feedback thread
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
I opted for Psychologist because Psychiatrist has a more clinical ring to it, and my hope was that this will be seen as a fundamentally social job. Essentially a sort of token HR rep there to keep the crew just sane enough to keep working.BeeSting12 wrote:Also name the job psychiatrist since they can legally prescribe medication.
I think the Psychologist being able to prescribe things works fine in the cartoonish lore of this game, and for that matter IRL there are some places where Psychologists legally can and do prescribe medication.
Last edited by annoyinggreencatgirl on Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Here is my best effort at adding it to the wiki.
https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Psychologist
https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Psychologist
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
reminder that the reason people play chaplain is because he gets a ton of validhunting gear
- oranges
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Allow me to elucidate thenShadowflame909 wrote:My thoughts on it is that an assistant getting a custom job title would equivalently be the same thing
there's nothing here.
if you have nothing to say, don't post about how little you HAVE TO SAY
JUST DON"T POST.
IF I CATCH YOU DOING THIS AGAIN, I will ban you from the forums for a while.
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
oranges... I think he meant that there's not enough content, not that he had no opinion
PS: Making it the psychologists job to manage medical records is a cool idea, I hope it catches on
PS: Making it the psychologists job to manage medical records is a cool idea, I hope it catches on
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tell the best admin how good he is
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
>I think he had an opinion on the content, not that he had an opinion
DO YOU EVEN HEAR YOURSELF DUMBASS
DO YOU EVEN HEAR YOURSELF DUMBASS
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
If anyone would like to see somewhat more substantial "content" for the Psychologist, short of an actual rework on mood/sanity/traumas and all that, since I'm far from equipped to do that and others are working on it... What would you like to see?
For instance, are you opposed to or for any of the following? They're things I've been thinking about.
Two I'm totally opposed to until maybe mechanics are a thing, because access to chem machines comes with a lot of baggage and I think it's more interesting if the Psych has to ask for a stock of drugs (or for additional stock if point one goes through) or write prescriptions.
Three I think could be really interesting, but I guess might be abused outside MRP.
For instance, are you opposed to or for any of the following? They're things I've been thinking about.
- The Psychologist being given a modest and low dose stock of pills at round start, as discussed previously here, psicodine, mindbreaker, happiness, or stuff similar to that.
- The Psychologist having pharmacy access.
- The Psychologist, CMO and HoP (Captain too obviously but he's already got sec console access) having exclusive access to the "mental status" setting in medical records, and bringing back beepsky being triggered to arrest or detain "insane" people.
Two I'm totally opposed to until maybe mechanics are a thing, because access to chem machines comes with a lot of baggage and I think it's more interesting if the Psych has to ask for a stock of drugs (or for additional stock if point one goes through) or write prescriptions.
Three I think could be really interesting, but I guess might be abused outside MRP.
- XivilaiAnaxes
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
If psych gets pills should be renamed to psychiatrist as that's one of the main distinctions between psychologist and psychiatrist (that and the psychiatrist goes through medical school first and psychologist doesn't do it at all).
Stickymayhem wrote:Imagine the sheer narcisssim required to genuinely believe you are this intelligent.
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
I covered this both in the PR and here but I'd like to reiterate; I don't think this is a distinction that would be very helpful.XivilaiAnaxes wrote:If psych gets pills should be renamed to psychiatrist as that's one of the main distinctions between psychologist and psychiatrist (that and the psychiatrist goes through medical school first and psychologist doesn't do it at all).
In real life "doctors" as singular individuals do not patch up basic wounds, then also go perform literal brain surgery, then also go deal with complex pharmacology. But on TG, they do.
I like "Psychologist" because I feel it stresses that this should be something of a social/RP role, even once mechanics do get added.
But this one is up to future contributors (adding mechanics to the job) and the maintainers really.
- Tarchonvaagh
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Give them the ability to either reduce or increase mood with a cooldown
Otherwise a very nice addition, thank you
Otherwise a very nice addition, thank you
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
The fact that they don't interact with moodlets whatsoever makes their office a complete waste of station space. What does a psychologist do that a doctor, chaplain, or hell - a fucking clown can't do better?
RP jobs can't solely be RP jobs. They need actual mechanical grounding to justify their existence. It's the same reason prisoner sucks dick, and why nobody plays lawyer anymore. Difference between this and the prisoner is that the prisoner isn't wasting space in their department to justify their existence.
RP jobs can't solely be RP jobs. They need actual mechanical grounding to justify their existence. It's the same reason prisoner sucks dick, and why nobody plays lawyer anymore. Difference between this and the prisoner is that the prisoner isn't wasting space in their department to justify their existence.
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
On one map there was room there specifically for expansion, and in fact (according to the contributor's own words) specifically for expansion from a psych job.deedubya wrote:The fact that they don't interact with moodlets whatsoever makes their office a complete waste of station space.
...
Difference between this and the prisoner is that the prisoner isn't wasting space in their department to justify their existence.
On three maps it fills in a small piece of the hole Genetic's department change left.
On another map it displaced a secondary surgery room, which who cares since you can and almost always do tend wounds on stasis beds and there's still a big surgery theater to do everything else in.
And on another map, it displaced an abandoned maintenance room.
In your mind what should this vital real estate have been used for?
Yeah they can.deedubya wrote:RP jobs can't solely be RP jobs.
But if you feel that strongly to the contrary, and the workload of running Boomerstation permits you any free time, feel free to code psych mechanics in or touch bases with the guy working on them.
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
I think the psychologist would Pai well with people with the unstable quirk.
- Cobby
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
I would prefer before you start giving them permission to pull medical resources that they have something they can offer that's worth pulling resources for.
Not that chem machine energy is worth its salt but still lol.
Also FYI we lost genetics specifically for map space, and I don't see anyone taking the mantle of adding maint stuff so not sure why all of a sudden that's a care (maybe for delta but?)
Not that chem machine energy is worth its salt but still lol.
Also FYI we lost genetics specifically for map space, and I don't see anyone taking the mantle of adding maint stuff so not sure why all of a sudden that's a care (maybe for delta but?)
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Yeah that's in part why I thought at present pharmacy access would be a stinky idea, and favored them writing prescriptions/asking for stock. At that point they have to at least try to justify it and it's up to the CMO, doctors, and chemists to actually honor it or not. Roleplay, as such.Cobby wrote:I would prefer before you start giving them permission to pull medical resources that they have something they can offer that's worth pulling resources for.
Not that chem machine energy is worth its salt but still lol.
I've been observing a lot of rounds and it's been going well on Manuel, and I've even seen some players doing pretty neat jobs with Psych on Terry and EH.
- Armhulen
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
I've thrown up this pr to hopefully let more people stick around for a bit in the office. Usually the bar isn't so far from med, but if it is this is one "moodlet heal" area in medbay.
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
I stand corrected, then. I forgot about how you guys hamfistedly shunted genetics over to science upstream. I guess there's plenty of space to recycle.annoyinggreencatgirl wrote:On one map there was room there specifically for expansion, and in fact (according to the contributor's own words) specifically for expansion from a psych job.deedubya wrote:The fact that they don't interact with moodlets whatsoever makes their office a complete waste of station space.
...
Difference between this and the prisoner is that the prisoner isn't wasting space in their department to justify their existence.
On three maps it fills in a small piece of the hole Genetic's department change left.
On another map it displaced a secondary surgery room, which who cares since you can and almost always do tend wounds on stasis beds and there's still a big surgery theater to do everything else in.
And on another map, it displaced an abandoned maintenance room.
In your mind what should this vital real estate have been used for?
You asked for criticism about the job. The criticism is that it's currently pointless and a waste of potential. Also, if I was to expend resources improving it, the only way it'd make it back upstream would be as a port.Yeah they can.deedubya wrote:RP jobs can't solely be RP jobs.
But if you feel that strongly to the contrary, and the workload of running Boomerstation permits you any free time, feel free to code psych mechanics in or touch bases with the guy working on them.
edit: Arm's got the right idea, but I wonder if there's a way to code it so that the moodlet only happens if there's a psychologist present in the room, and lingers for a while after leaving? Say like, 4x the amount you remained in the room?
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
One good idea we can steal from paradise is to allow the psychologist to help demote people who after a good faith determination are declared to be unfit to serve. If a head is ooc ick'ing, self harming or randomly attacking people you should be legally allowed to chloral them and put them in a straight jacket.
if their mental health doesn't improve after a talk about their relationship with their mother, a steady dose of lithium and a little haloperidol, you can demote them. Make sure you have some support amongst security or the heads before attempting this, or you will probably wind up dead.
You essentially get a license to be the comdom police if the need should arrive.
if their mental health doesn't improve after a talk about their relationship with their mother, a steady dose of lithium and a little haloperidol, you can demote them. Make sure you have some support amongst security or the heads before attempting this, or you will probably wind up dead.
You essentially get a license to be the comdom police if the need should arrive.
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
It doesn't matter if it's pointless for you, that is irrelevant.
What they want is feedback from people who would play the role as it is now, if you want to idly speculate about how to make it a different role, go to ideas so we can ignore you.
What they want is feedback from people who would play the role as it is now, if you want to idly speculate about how to make it a different role, go to ideas so we can ignore you.
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Why ask for feedback if you don't want to change anything?
technokek wrote:Cannot prove this so just belive me if when say this
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
I ask myself that every day caco
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Nobody is is providing "feedback" by way of dropping in to inform me that they don't like RP jobs, or being the 14th person to think they're clever for thinking up "ACKCHYUALLY....... psychologists can't legally prescribe medicine."cacogen wrote:Why ask for feedback if you don't want to change anything?
Post's like Kryson's, ideas and such, are good to see and I'm all ears. And I'd like to hear more, good or bad, from people who have actually played the job.
I also asked for direct feedback on some things pertaining to the job here and it's largely been crickets, so... Shrug?
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
I've been thinking about something along these lines, yeah. It's interesting and might be feasible, and pretty fun from an RP standpoint.Kryson wrote:One good idea we can steal from paradise is to allow the psychologist to help demote people who after a good faith determination are declared to be unfit to serve. If a head is ooc ick'ing, self harming or randomly attacking people you should be legally allowed to chloral them and put them in a straight jacket.
if their mental health doesn't improve after a talk about their relationship with their mother, a steady dose of lithium and a little haloperidol, you can demote them. Make sure you have some support amongst security or the heads before attempting this, or you will probably wind up dead.
You essentially get a license to be the comdom police if the need should arrive.
I like the idea of people with Psych access (namely the Psych himself, the CMO, the HoP, and obviously the Captain) being the only ones able to set people's mental status in medical records, and if set to "insane" would make beepsky chase and arrest them on sight just like arrest status, as well as spit alerts out in the medical and possibly service frequency about an unstable person being detained.
I think this could be used to sort out shittery that doesn't exactly make somebody valid, or maybe doesn't alone qualify them for demotion, and create some interesting RP in the process. Does this fall in line with what you were thinking?
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
I put a PR up to give the Psychologist some pills, feedback appreciated.
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/50211
edit: oops wrong PR
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/50211
edit: oops wrong PR
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
giving any amount of pax is a terrible ideaannoyinggreencatgirl wrote:I put a PR up to give the Psychologist some pills, feedback appreciated.
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/50211
edit: oops wrong PR
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Why?Flatulent wrote:giving any amount of pax is a terrible ideaannoyinggreencatgirl wrote:I put a PR up to give the Psychologist some pills, feedback appreciated.
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/50211
edit: oops wrong PR
He gets 25u spread across 5 pills. I'm terrible at chemistry and making 90u of Pax took me like 2 minutes.
I could have shaved it down to well under a minute if I burned a paper to get ash, or better yet, just swiped one of the many multiver bottles sitting around.
I was a lot more reluctant to give Synaptizine pills than Pax to the psych at round start because while it has some legit psych uses and it's piss easy to make, those uses are pretty niche and the stun resistance is basically a "run away from sec" button.
- wesoda25
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Pax is fine
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
yeah i said that on the original pr because i'm a faggot i didn't know everyone else here had degrees in armchair psychology too. where i'm from people are retardedannoyinggreencatgirl wrote:"ACKCHYUALLY....... psychologists can't legally prescribe medicine."
by the way i like the job and i think it's good you're adding medicine
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
general practitioners aren't legally allowed to do surgery either, some suspension of disbelief and stretching of logic is required to enjoy yourself here
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Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Played half a round of this on Manuel, it was late at night, so kinda lowpop, but whatever. The role of counselor or mediator or whatever is one I could reasonably see, but I also feel like that job is taken up by the Bartender as much as anything. As it stands, the job has very little substance, even by meme RP job standards.
The lawyer, for all the complaints about their uselessness, is partially there to be an in-character thorn in security's side. Security is an interesting place where interesting and relevant things are happening, and the lawyer has an IC reason to interject himself and play a sort of advocate for criminals. The curator has far less relevance, but they at least have a couple of cool suits and a large public area to play with if for some reason they want to attempt autism projects (which I think they should be better equipped to do, but that's another thread)
The psychologist has no reason to exist, no niche to fill, and no tools to play with. Thematically, it's kind of cute, but that's about it.
The lawyer, for all the complaints about their uselessness, is partially there to be an in-character thorn in security's side. Security is an interesting place where interesting and relevant things are happening, and the lawyer has an IC reason to interject himself and play a sort of advocate for criminals. The curator has far less relevance, but they at least have a couple of cool suits and a large public area to play with if for some reason they want to attempt autism projects (which I think they should be better equipped to do, but that's another thread)
The psychologist has no reason to exist, no niche to fill, and no tools to play with. Thematically, it's kind of cute, but that's about it.
- Farquaar
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:20 am
- Byond Username: Farquaar
- Location: Delta Quadrant
Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
On some other servers (Bay, for instance) the chaplain also acts as a counselor: his office has a psychiatrist's couch and is comfy enough to hold sessions in. Keep in mind, I'm not against the idea of a psychologist role, but considering alternatives can help shed light on whether a feature is what's best for the game.
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- Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:40 pm
- Byond Username: Crashmatusow
Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
We technically have a mechanism for relieving mentally unfit crew (this is currently the CMO’s job) but I literally never seen anyone do it. Probably because medbay lacks tools for effective nonlethal detainment.
- Farquaar
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:20 am
- Byond Username: Farquaar
- Location: Delta Quadrant
Re: Psychologist feedback thread.
Demotions seldom happen in general. It's a lot of trouble for everyone involved, especially if the demotee's revenge plot is something lame like self-antagging.crashmatusow wrote:We technically have a mechanism for relieving mentally unfit crew (this is currently the CMO’s job) but I literally never seen anyone do it. Probably because medbay lacks tools for effective nonlethal detainment.
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